INTERVIEW: Bernie Ecclestone on Meeting the KGB, Why Hungary Deserves to Stay in F1 & the Best Current Drivers

On the eve of the fortieth consecutive edition of the Hungarian Grand Prix, Károly Méhes was granted an exclusive interview with Bernie Ecclestone, the man responsible for bringing Formula 1 to Budapest.

I first met Bernie Ecclestone in 1986, on the eve of the very first Hungarian Grand Prix. We chatted briefly outside the Hotel Duna Intercontinental Hotel. I was a young student and F1 fan who dreamed of one day writing about my favorite sport. Now, thirty-nine years later, as Formula 1 visited Budapest for the fortieth consecutive edition of the Hungarian Grand Prix, I was granted an exclusive interview with the former F1 supremo. Fittingly, our meeting took place at the same hotel, which is now the Budapest Marriott.

The “Holland” issue of Grand Prix International magazine in 1982 announced that there would be a Soviet Grand Prix the following year. The article even included a track layout. How close did you get to bringing Formula 1 to Moscow?

My aim was to run Formula 1 cars through Red Square! We went to see what we could do, but nothing happened in the end. We had to postpone everything when the Communist party chief Brezhnev died [in November 1982]. We were unable to continue negotiations with his successors. I always thought of Formula 1 as a World Championship, and Russia – or the Soviet Union at the time – was an important part of the world. But in the end, we gave up on the idea.

You didn’t give up on staging a race behind the Iron Curtain, however. Your Hungarian friend, Tamás Rohonyi, suggested bringing Formula 1 to Budapest. What was the biggest problem for you during the negotiations with the Hungarian authorities? 

I remember on one occasion Tamás telling me we had to meet some government officials to discuss preparations for the race. It turned out they were from the KGB. They just wanted to make sure that Formula 1 wouldn’t cause any harm to the Communist regime. On the practical side, I wanted to stage the race in the city, at the old Népliget circuit [then and now, a city park]. But the authorities said that F1 would disturb the animals and ruin people’s holidays. When we realized it couldn’t happen there, we had to look for somewhere else. That’s how we ended up in Mogyoród, which has been home to the Hungaroring circuit now for almost forty years.

Was it a personal success for you, bringing Formula 1 to a Communist country?

Yes, absolutely! The race got better year on year, which was satisfying to see. The local organizers suggested improvements and if they looked sensible, we agreed. I’ve always said that Hungary deserves to be on the calendar. Formula 1 shouldn’t lose the Hungarian Grand Prix.

Which country would you like to see added to the current F1 calendar?

South Africa. The African continent deserves a race. It’s getting closer, I think, but as always, it is a question of politics and finding the money.

From your time in charge of the sport, which races were you disappointed didn’t work out in the long term?

South Korea and India! I was very, very unhappy after losing these races. Again, there was always politics in the background. With India it was very simple. The people there did an incredible job, really. But then the payment to us wasn’t carried out correctly, and we didn’t really know why. It turned out to be an issue with the tax system in India. That’s why we couldn’t continue, although it was a very good circuit.

Which race on the current Formula 1 calendar is your favorite? Your home race at Silverstone?

Definitely not Silverstone, not at all!  If I would be asked which race I would attend, I would probably say the Canadian Grand Prix. It’s a very good circuit and Montreal is a very nice city. Baku is another great city to visit.

Who will win the 2025 drivers’ championship?

The driver who leads the championship now [Oscar Piastri]. At the beginning of the season, I said Verstappen or Piastri. I wouldn’t write off Max completely, but it seems to be decided already.

You have always been close to Ferrari, including with Enzo. How frustrating is it for you to see the team’s ongoing struggles?

It is quite incredible. Ferrari worked well under the leadership of Jean Todt, when he brought Michael and many other personnel from Benetton. At the moment, I cannot say anything negative about the Italian staff working for Ferrari, but I think the team needs someone to take charge, find the right direction and get the job done. I am not sure that taking Lewis [Hamilton] was the right decision. Lewis is obviously talented, but a little bit political, which is typical for Ferrari and typical for him. But he could come to life again which would be good for him and good for Ferrari.  

What about Red Bull, do you know what happened behind the scenes when Christian Horner lost his job?

It was a bit like a marriage that ended in a divorce. After Didi Mateschitz’s [Red Bull founder’s] death, people inside Red Bull had ideas about the leadership and direction of the team that did not favor Christian. He did a very good job, but he was viewed, just like Max Verstappen, as someone that did not have a proper number two. It is hard to criticize someone who is winning races and championships, but there was no plan B in case something went wrong with either Christian or Max.

It was a similar situation at Brabham when you were in charge and Nelson Piquet was your number 1. Drivers like Zunino and Rebaque were nowhere near the Brazilian. 

Yes, exactly. You are right. That’s the trouble when the boss falls in love with one of his drivers. This can cause problems. It is good to have two more or less equal drivers like McLaren has today. It works if you can deliver the exact same machinery for both drivers. When I brought Riccardo Patrese into the team [in 1982], I told him that we had three cars [one for each driver plus a reserve car] and he should choose which one he would like to drive. Then there would be no complaints..

If you were running a team today, which drivers would you sign?

I would sign Piastri. But also Hadjar. I hope Bortoleto will get the job done because it is always good to have a successful Brazilian on the grid.

What about Hülkenberg? Were you happy to see him finish on the podium at Silverstone? Would you put him in your car?

It’s great to see Hülkenberg come to life again. He was lucky as the race developed, took advantage of it and now probably he is feeling like he can win races! And with the right machine I am sure he can. But would I hire him? Probably not. I have nothing against him, but I would go for somebody from the younger generation. It would be more satisfying to pick somebody and see them succeed rather than picking somebody who should have succeeded and didn’t.

Going back to your own racing career. Let’s clear something up once and for all. Was it you behind the wheel during qualifying for the 1958 Monaco Grand Prix?

Yes! I sat behind the steering wheel but I asked Stuart Lewis-Evans to put in some quick laps in my car… Louis Chiron, who was clerk of the course, figured out what had happened and marched over to me. He banged his flag on the top of my helmet and said I shouldn’t have done it. But we had a laugh in the end about it.

Do you regret not becoming an F1 driver?

Like every young man, I felt I could have been a successful driver. But I wasn’t prepared to give up all the things I needed to give up in order to achieve that success. I ran a lot of businesses and when I was 40, I sold all of them and bought the Brabham team. 

Where you enjoyed a lot of success, including two drivers championships with Nelson Piquet. 

Yes, true. It was a good team. I am still very close friends with my drivers from Brabham who are still alive. I caught up recently with Riccardo Patrese and it was nice to see him.

Brabham also developed the legendary fan car, with which Niki Lauda won the 1978 Swedish Grand Prix. 

Yes, it was a bit special! But it wasn’t disqualified. I withdrew it. Colin Chapman [Lotus] and Teddy Mayer [McLaren] said to me at the time that it must have cost a lot of money and would probably win the championship, but it was not good for the future of FOCA [Formula One Constructors Association), which we were trying to build up at the time. I listened to them and decided to withdraw the car.